The Lighting Controller

eedetail wrote:Could it not be as simple as adding a check box under each slider in editor,
which when checked would port that channels output through the master fader
while those not checked would not be affected?

I think that is what I would like to see. Then my chases i could easily re-configure
to pass thru the master fader, but not affect scenes including moving head fixtures.

I must admit, that when considering John's request initially, this is the way I had pictured this going. But when it comes down to it, I think you will see the power of just selecting Groups of fixtures is WAY less work on both ends.

Like Support, this is very hard to describe. So what I don't see is how selecting groups could hurt you? 1 group contains whatever fixtures you group together. So you get all the sliders at once. So the challenge (to justify the project) is why would selecting Groups impact the feature.

So the test you can do right now in Editor is grab a group of fixtures, set the color on the wheel and use that intensity slider. WITH consideration given to the fact that your color will stay the same and only a % reduced, what are you unable to do with this method? That answer is what support needs to hear in order to change the plans.

Othen times, a limit is just an operators (you and I) take on how to use the feature. When I read that #3 description, I think this will be simple for others to use on the fly, easy to implement and what many users have been asking for. For now, like Support, I don't see a benifit of making things that much more complicated, just to select every individual chanel.

Support wrote

We understand the "patching method" is much powerful. It should be possible to have both of them "group & patchng method" on same page (or tab) ; the biggest difficulty is an extra program for patching must be coded.

I understand that this will be a major software write, but I believe that it will be well worth it in the end, and that it will take time.
I look forward to seeing the release of Version 7.00Beta

So, as DHoude said: for all interested forumers, if you find something you can not do with the "group method", please let us know.

The steps in software coding side:

1. Our first concern is: where to put the master faders ?
- one per button
- one per page
- in a separate page (or tab)
If we do not find any "blocking reason", the choice will be "in a separate page".
Please note that, once we start coding for "separate page", it will be very very difficult to change.

2. Then, what shall we link to the master faders ?
If we do not find any "blocking reason", the choice will be to link one Editor group to each master fader.
Again, the "patching method" will remain open because, graphically speaking, this will not affect a lot the master fader page/tab (while it would have been much more difficult with the "one per button/page method").

As previously mentioned in discussions, I am not in favour of the group option, as I will not get a "Master Fader", but another group of faders to use. I would be better off with an external device.

Option "Open in Editor" for buttons in Live is available in beta files.

JohnRichards wrote:As previously mentioned in discussions, I am not in favour of the group option, as I will not get a "Master Fader", but another group of faders to use. I would be better off with an external device.

John, This is your chance to get it your way. I just think if you test it the way I described above (in editior), you will be able to vocalizse what you feel is wrong with this method. Instead of standing fim on "I don't support it".

I just happen to see a good working solution with what Support has said. When I don't, I have said why, and so far they have listened very well. Please, lets have a discussion. I would like to know if you see something that I am missing. That offer stands for anyone who can add something to this discussion.

@DHoude and Support.
Thanks for the encouragement. I am finding it very difficult to express my concerns etc in words, but I will attempt to describe my use of the software.

I use the software mainly for theatre, dance/ballet, school concerts and the scenes that are created before the show are very exacting and loaded into a timeline.
Most of the time we use dimmer packs (6 to 24 channels depending on show size), led parcans, moving spots and washes, foggers and hazers. I do not group like fixtures together, but will concentrate on stage positions (ie StageDownLights Behind Scrim, StageDownLights Front of Scrim, FOH Stage Left, FOH Stage Centre, FOH Stage Right). The StageDownLights could also be expanded to StageLeft and StageRight.

I realise that I could change my groups, by splitting them into like fixtures into different groups, but I find that it does not suit my programming approach.

So to explain myself again, one or two master faders would be quite adequate for me and for each different show, I would just patch which channels I require for each fader. If there are only three of these faders, they could sit permanently in the Live Window. This could be achieved by shuffeling and resizing the other items (ie Freeze, BPM).

I think the concept is very simple and would more than likely appeal to a lot of users.

So it sounds like what you are saying is that with "Non Intelegent" lights, working off of 1 Switch box/Dimming outlets, that you can only group whole fixtures in Editor (or switch boxes, in your case). Where you might have 1 box - 26 chan switch box (with 26 different incandecent lights) and the lights will be on different parts of your stage.

So you need master intensity for each part of your stage, but different parts may be controlled by what essentially is 1 - 26 chan fixture.

My question to support is, would it be possible to create groups of sliders? Not just whole fixtures, and if they are Switch box/Dimmer class devices.

Does this discribe what you are saying and sound like a good approch John?

During programming I am finding I am using this feature quite a bit. It is a great little short especially when debugging a scene I've made that turns out to have something wrong with it. I imagine it will be great for midshow repairs on the fly and save. Then I'd load a blank scene to be able to grab groups and fixtures on the fly in show special effects I haven't built for and am shooting from the hip.
What usually catches me out is when I go for a keyboard trigger when I am in Editor because I want a preprogrammed effect/feature and instead get no fixtures selected or a group of fixtures assigned to to the sane letter I am using in Live for a keyboard trigger.

@DHoude
I have already created my fixtures in groups as you have suggested.
What I have done is just "fix" the software to allow me what I need to do.
My suggestion for patching is to be able to use the software as it has been designed to use.